How to Be a Productivity Ninja with Graham Allcott

Feeling a little frazzled, unmotivated, or just plain overwhelmed by the thought of getting things done? You won't want to miss this conversation with Graham Allcott, author of the global best seller "How to Be a Productivity Ninja" and founder of one of the world's leading providers of personal productivity training and consultancy. He's sharing his favorite tips and tricks to get more done in less time and has a few key tools to help us stay on track. 

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Transcript

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Graham Allcott: [00:00:00] Lots of people focus on time management and what's much more important is to focus on attention management, right? So how do we manage our attention? And the power in that question is recognizing that not every hour of your attention is equal. 

Michelle Dawn Mooney: Hey, it's Michelle. Welcome to Conversations. I'm excited to introduce you to some new guests in the coming months, but in the meantime, this conversation is from the vault.

Have you ever felt frazzled, scattered, Unmotivated, unproductive, and just plain overwhelmed by the thought of getting things done, whether at work or at home. Well, first off, you're not alone. And second, boy, do I have an interview for you. In this episode, we're going to help you learn how to be a productivity ninja from the author of said book, How to Be a Productivity Ninja, Graham Allcott.

I've had the pleasure of interviewing Graham not once, but twice. And each time it's been an eye opening experience where I've walked away with some amazing. pieces of wisdom and advice that have really helped me change my productivity [00:01:00] game. And I'm hoping they'll do the same for you. Graham is the author of multiple books, including the global bestsellers, how to be a productivity ninja and kind the quiet power of kindness at work.

And as a popular speaker on both of those topics, he is also the founder of think productive, one of the world's leading providers of personal productivity training and consultancy. But we're kicking things off with what he calls his Alternative bio. Here's my conversation with Graham Allcott. So I have to let people in on an alternate bio that you put in here.

And I think this is hilarious. So, I told you he's an entrepreneur, a podcaster, speaker, does a lot of other things that we haven't even gotten to yet. But Here is one version of the bio. Graham is one of the laziest and most impatient people he knows. He hates anything that takes longer than it needs to, and spending five minutes in a queue is a recipe for self combustion.

Despite being the author of a book called How to Be a Productivity Ninja, Graham's own productivity [00:02:00] is variable. He is allergic to detail of any description and will regularly do the exact opposite of the things he talks about in his book. He then remembers he wrote a book about it. and follows his own advice.

Again, repeat cycle. So I love first of all, that you are having a little fun at your own expense here. What was the light bulb moment that you would say, you know what, I got to write a book about time management. And then as somebody who has somewhat of, you know, productivity challenges in their life, where do you even start?

Graham Allcott: Yeah, well, the reason for that, um, slightly poking fun at myself bio is that's specifically on my website for conferences, because I just really hate that sort of Very self congratulatory smug conference bio thing and the fact that everyone's pretending that someone else wrote it, but they're also Everyone's just writing it in the third person about themselves and all of that [00:03:00] And so I just thought why don't I just do like an alternative bio and it sort of goes on to say that Um, my career trajectory looks very good in hindsight, but I was making it up as I went along at every point and, um, and all of that really speaks to why I wrote Productivity Ninja, which is that I realized that I personally wasn't good at productivity.

My own brain is quite scattered and ideasy and not very organized. And I needed to work on myself and figure out my own productivity and having done that and having thought when I did so that I was the last person in the world to solve this problem. I started talking to people about how, Hey, I've got this new system for email and Hey, I'm doing this and I'm doing that.

And everyone just went, Oh, Wow, I need that. And that's where the idea for the book came from, how to be a productivity ninja. And also my business think productive. So we've got offices in the states and Canada, in the UK, [00:04:00] in Western Europe, in Australia, and now in Dubai. And what we do is we work with some of the brightest and best organizations in the world to help them with, This stuff with getting more stuff done with getting clarity with Introducing better cultures around communication and leadership and everything else.

And yeah, so it really came from me recognizing my own failings doing something about it and Then sort of recognizing that you know, the bit that I'm good at is designing the systems, right? So having the ideas designing systems that became then very useful. Um, and, and I remember when I put it in that alternative bio, I don't always get it right.

So I will occasionally have days where I really don't practice what I preach. And then, you know, I've kind of forgotten my best practices. And then I'm like, Oh, there's, there's a better way here. Like I know how to do this. And so I think that's reassuring, hopefully for people to hear is that we shouldn't try and be perfect.

We should recognize that there's always going to be limitations to what we can do. We're always going to have [00:05:00] bad days. And that doesn't really matter as long as we know when we've fallen off the wagon that it's very easy to get back on. And so that's really, you know, where the whole thing came from. 

Michelle Dawn Mooney: A good new situation where if you get into a bad spot, you could always, as you said, get back on the wagon.

So let's talk about the information that you're pulling together for this book, because clearly you're trying to tap into the minds of not only yourself, but other people. And what causes them to lose sight, to not be as centered and not be as productive. So what are some of the key factors that you notice that were limiting people with their productivity?

Graham Allcott: Yeah, so I think lots of people focus on time management and what's much more important is to focus on attention management. How do we manage our attention? And the power in that question is recognizing that not every hour of your attention is equal. 

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Graham Allcott: So we have a certain number of hours in the day, which I call proactive attention, which is basically where we have.

[00:07:00] our best energy, our, you know, innate ability to do really fantastic work. And then we also all have some hours in the day where it's like, we're a bit tired. We're not actually that productive. We feel a bit groggy. We're looking at the email scrolling up and scrolling down and not really doing anything.

And, you know, recognizing that we all have those, those variable levels of attention. Is very powerful because once we recognize that we can figure out when they are And also we can set up our to do lists and our systems to say Hey, this is the work that really needs my fullest attention And this is the slightly mindless work and this is the bits in the middle And it then becomes much more easy to allocate the right kind of jobs the right kind of attention levels so that's something that I see, um, you know, certainly most people not doing and When I coach people and they start doing that just makes a huge difference So There's obviously a lot more to it than that in terms of how people deal with procrastination and interruptions and lots of stuff.

But I think, [00:08:00] you know, fundamentally, um, you know, part of my mission in life really is to get people to stop thinking about time management and really start thinking about attention management instead. 

Michelle Dawn Mooney: Really interesting perspective. And yeah. Coming from a person, and we joked before we got on here, I constantly struggle with time management, which caused, which caused a little snaffle with my time of getting on here.

And it really is, for me, it's always like that is the biggest thing that I can look at. And hearing what you said, and kind of, not necessarily the flip side, but another view. really does change that methodology of how you approach things. So the good news is we talked about this, there's help. How do we start?

If people are out there like, I need this, I need to, to get more productive. What are some of the first baby steps that we can take to get us on that path? 

Graham Allcott: Yeah, so if you are, if your starting point for this is you're feeling a bit overwhelmed and stressed and there's too many emails and there's too [00:09:00] much stuff, one of the best things you can, well, often in that moment what we want to do and our temptation is to just start something, just work on something and I'll feel better.

And the hardest thing to do when you're feeling stressed and overwhelmed, is actually to do nothing, take a step back and get everything that's in your head, out of your head. So get a pen and paper or, you know, get a word document or a Google doc or something, and just get everything out of your head onto the page.

And by doing that, you will. Um, find it much easier to then move things around, prioritize, see the wood from the trees and just think in a much better way. So psychologists called this distributed cognition. Basically the idea is once you can see stuff and move it around, you make better quality decisions.

So that's a really good starting point. Um, and then the same kind of principles apply to everything else. So getting your email inbox to zero, a lot of which is, you know, really about [00:10:00] cheating, getting the stuff out the way that is taking up your attention or, um, you know, that is in front of your eyeballs, that doesn't need to be.

Um, it's not just about control a delete, but it's not far off that there's a whole chapter in the book called Ninja email, which is basically step by step how to get your inbox to zero in less than three hours. And, you know, it's kind of taking that same approach of how can I get clarity? How can I put my attention onto the right stuff and get control over what I have?

That's really the starting point to where then all of those great habits start to feed off. 

Michelle Dawn Mooney: So let's talk about expectations for a minute, because you kind of said people are like, let's go and it's hard to kind of take a step back. So how important is it to be realistic with our approach? And then what does that look like?

Graham Allcott: Yeah. So you mentioned before this idea of being a type A person or being really driven. And I think, you know, most of us are in some way or another, right? And so, um, what that lends itself to is we get hyper [00:11:00] ambitious. We want to change the world. We want to do loads of amazing work. We want to be recognized for that.

So there's a whole bunch of drivers behind. this idea that we should strive and be busy and do more. Um, there was a study a little while ago that looked at, um, the work life balance approaches and cultures in different countries around the world. And as with a lot of these kind of studies where it's kind of measuring You know stress levels and happiness and whatever the scandinavian countries did really well and came out on top saying they had the best Work life balance in the whole world and they interviewed this guy in denmark on the news Um, and they said hey, what's the key?

Why do people in denmark have such a great work life balance and this guy? Just looked at the interview and just said well, it's really simple. We just have lower expectations And I think that's actually a really profound and important lesson. And I think we can get carried away with setting a hundred [00:12:00] resolutions and all this kind of stuff.

Whereas really what's key is focusing on the stuff that really matters and making space for what matters. I quite often say that my definition of productivity is just making space for what matters. And if we can do that, um, we're really onto a winner. And you asked what it looks like in practice. Well, you know, The hardest thing and the most important discipline, if you're going to have low expectations and be more.

You know, geared around high priorities, rather than trying to do everything is saying no. So we've gotta say no in, you know, in many different ways. We've gotta say no to other people and set good boundaries and really be mindful over what's my priorities versus what are these requests that are actually your priorities, but not mine.

So that kind of interpersonal saying no really important. We've also gotta say no to ourselves. And we've also got to renegotiate the things that we might have already said yes to. So one of the things I talk about is that every [00:13:00] week we should be looking at our to do list and asking ourselves that really important question around, is this the stuff that I thought was a really great idea three weeks ago, but isn't now, and I can take it off the list.

And I think we're really bad at renegotiating what's on our own list because it feels like, especially if we've made some kind of public commitment to it, it feels like because we've made a commitment, then we need to follow through. And I think there's something really. You know, I've really learned as I've really practiced and been surrounded by this whole kind of area of productivity for many years that like getting comfortable enough to say I was wrong there, or that was an idea that I thought was great, but actually isn't, or the world has moved on, or I just haven't got round to this and I'm not going to, you know, to actually, um, admit some of those things and be comfortable enough in yourself to, to make those kinds of proclamations, I think is really valuable.

So. You know, lowering our expectations, saying no to [00:14:00] other people, but also saying no to ourselves and just recognizing that, you know, there's, um, there's something really important about doing the right things well and making space for what matters, but not trying to do everything. 

Michelle Dawn Mooney: Wow. That really is powerful, Graham, especially about renegotiating, because I think I know myself personally, I can attest to just recently kind of being faced with that situation.

And I think part of, you know, the. the questioning for ourselves, if we can kind of backpedal with things is that, well, if we've made a commitment, it's a, it's a form of failure in a sense. Like if I said that I was going to do something or if I committed to something and you know what, I think a lot of times we get in trouble because mentally, physically, emotionally, if we're not able to do those things, as you said, that we said we could a couple of weeks ago, things change, life changes, and we need to make sure that.

We're in good shape to be able to be there for the people around us. So I think that's, that's so crucial for so many people. Let me ask you a little personal question here because we're talking about [00:15:00] trying to be productive, but also the fact that it's not that easy. So can you give us an example maybe where you realize I'm veering off and I'm getting off where I should be and then all of a sudden, you know what, this happened and this is how I kind of got back there.

Okay. 

Graham Allcott: Yeah, well, like most people in the world, I'm sure my phone is one of those, uh, you know, temptations that derailed my productivity. So when I first wrote how to be a productivity ninja back in 2012, 2013, um, you know, I, like, I don't think anything really changed from that point until five years later when my publisher asked me to do a five year anniversary edition.

They said, what, what new would you want to write? And I said, well, actually, none of the the key principles of the book have changed. We still have to think in the same way. The only thing that really changed between 2012, 2013, and 2019 was smartphones and the ability of smartphones [00:16:00] to derail us by 2020.

just becoming more addictive, more compelling. So when I did the fifth anniversary edition of the book, which is the one with the green cover, that book has got a whole chapter called how to stop messing about on your phone. Um, and there's a couple of things that I do that I find really helpful. And the starting point for this is, is to say that the best and brightest minds in the world right now are sat in Silicon Valley.

And they're working for big tech companies. And the currency of those big tech companies is your attention. And their job is to get as much of your attention as possible and then advertise in that space. So once we realize that the brightest minds in the world are out to get us with this and to derail our productivity, then we have to really recognize that willpower is not a very good thing.

solution, right? So just to rely on our own willpower doesn't really work. So a couple of things that I do around that. So one is, um, there's a really great app called [00:17:00] forest. So forest, what you do is you, um, you start your work on your word document or somewhere else and your phone's over there. And what you're trying to say to yourself is, right, I'm going to focus on this piece of work for 20 minutes, for half an hour, for 40 minutes, whatever the time period is.

And then you set that on forest. So you say on forest, it's going to be half an hour. And a tree grows on the screen and it takes half an hour to grow. And if at any point you switch away from your Word document or the thing that you're doing, and you go and try and check your phone and you go off the forest app, the tree dies.

So it's just this really simple little piece of psychology that says, Hey, there's a really good reason not to check my phone and just puts that in place. And then the next level of that, which is what I do during the mornings is an app called freedom and freedom is basically an app where you say to yourself, I'm going to treat myself like an absolute child and I'm going to set the rules and I'm going to make it impossible for me to check stuff.

So in the mornings. My phone will not let me access certain websites like the BBC football [00:18:00] website and you know, Twitter It all blocks right and it's actually really difficult to to turn it off So basically once you realize that you're you're stuck and it won't work You just kind of think to yourself.

Oh and that mindfulness hits that says hey, I was trying to derail myself there That was a stupid idea. Let's get back to the thing So those are just really simple tools that you can use forest and freedom There are the freedoms are paid at and there are Other things that will do it for free, like off time, uh, quality time.

There's like different ones that you can use for free if you don't want to pay. But freedom, I think costs me about 60 or something when I bought it and that was a lifetime subscription. And I can't tell you how many hours. I've got back by not derailing my own productivity with that. Um, so it feels like a very good investment for a lot of people.

Um, but yeah, we've really got to recognize those, um, those things that derail us. Um, I love talking about my own failures because it feels like a, [00:19:00] cause it's sort of cheap therapy, um, but B I think. People like, I really noticed after I first released productivity Ninja that, um, it sort of felt like a rod that I created for my own back.

Everyone expected me to be on time. Everybody expected every day to be hyperproductive and, you know, many days are, um, but you know, it kind of gave me this, um, sort of platform and expectation where I was just kind of unable to ever have any wiggle room to fail. Um, and so I think it's a really important message to give to people to say that.

Everybody screws this up. Ninjas are human and not superhero. And therefore we will all have days where it doesn't go well. And we're all fallible and we're all weird. Um, there's lots that we need to do to, to keep an eye and be mindful of. Of our imperfections. 

Michelle Dawn Mooney: Hope you enjoyed my conversation with Graham Alcott.

To learn more about his books, speaking, and everything he's involved in, and there's a lot, you can visit GrahamAlcott. com. If you enjoyed this [00:20:00] episode, I would love for you to leave a review and be sure to subscribe to the podcast if you'd like to hear more conversations like the one you heard today.

Thanks again for listening and remember one person can make a difference and that difference could be you. We'll see you soon.